Comments on: A Piece of Engineering ! http://www.plasticpilot.net/blog/2008/04/27/a-piece-of-engineering/ General Aviation and Aviation In General Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:02:37 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Bern (LSZB) — Golf Hotel Whiskey http://www.plasticpilot.net/blog/2008/04/27/a-piece-of-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-24803 Bern (LSZB) — Golf Hotel Whiskey Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:22:40 +0000 http://www.plasticpilot.net/blog/2008/04/27/a-piece-of-engineering/#comment-24803 [...] results in a left turn parallel entry into the right-turns hold, and all gets very quickly. I got lost in this holding once, during my IFR [...] [...] results in a left turn parallel entry into the right-turns hold, and all gets very quickly. I got lost in this holding once, during my IFR [...]

]]> By: PlasticPilot http://www.plasticpilot.net/blog/2008/04/27/a-piece-of-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-2571 PlasticPilot Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:42:36 +0000 http://www.plasticpilot.net/blog/2008/04/27/a-piece-of-engineering/#comment-2571 Cliff, you're right, this is much easier with a GPS. But there are days where GPS fail (seldom, but does exist), and some procedures are not allowed as GPS overlay. I flew both of them with GPS programmed but with no map nor coupling, just as backup (and unfortunately the Nice one in simulator). To be fair, I got lost in the Bern departure (while still in instruction). And in the case of Bern, no way asking for vectors, the lower airspace there has no radar coverage... Cliff, you’re right, this is much easier with a GPS. But there are days where GPS fail (seldom, but does exist), and some procedures are not allowed as GPS overlay.

I flew both of them with GPS programmed but with no map nor coupling, just as backup (and unfortunately the Nice one in simulator). To be fair, I got lost in the Bern departure (while still in instruction). And in the case of Bern, no way asking for vectors, the lower airspace there has no radar coverage…

]]> By: Cliff http://www.plasticpilot.net/blog/2008/04/27/a-piece-of-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-2567 Cliff Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:07:39 +0000 http://www.plasticpilot.net/blog/2008/04/27/a-piece-of-engineering/#comment-2567 The point is that these departures have been designed to be overlaid with the RNAV departures. In a suitably equipped plane, you just put, say, LONSO 3A into the GPS, get the autopilot on at takeoff and, other than initiating the right turn at 420 ft, it should do the rest. Once everyone can (or is required to be able to) follow RNAV procedures, I'd expect LONSO 3E and similar to disappear. As for Bern, there doesn't appear to be a FRI departure. Has it been replaced. I have to say I'd far rather take the BER 1S departure over the low land than I would the MONIN 1S where I have to climb exactly as stated or risk hitting the mountain! BER 1S is the IFR equivalent of climbing in the overhead. The point is that these departures have been designed to be overlaid with the RNAV departures. In a suitably equipped plane, you just put, say, LONSO 3A into the GPS, get the autopilot on at takeoff and, other than initiating the right turn at 420 ft, it should do the rest.

Once everyone can (or is required to be able to) follow RNAV procedures, I’d expect LONSO 3E and similar to disappear.

As for Bern, there doesn’t appear to be a FRI departure. Has it been replaced. I have to say I’d far rather take the BER 1S departure over the low land than I would the MONIN 1S where I have to climb exactly as stated or risk hitting the mountain! BER 1S is the IFR equivalent of climbing in the overhead.

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